anni is okay ([info]estrie) wrote,
@ 2004-03-25 14:41:00
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last names
[info]plural, here posted how he feels about the whole women taking their husbands' last names at marriage thing. And then a whole bunch of people commented (and still are commenting probably). Instead of commenting there, I'm going to think in writing here. And I'm going to make a poll, and request comments from you.

Seeing as, again, I'm looking for responses, this'll be in... this journal, [info]estrie.

I have yet to encounter a last name that would go better with my first name and me than what I already have. This is probably majorly a result of the fact that I spent 20 years correcting people on how to say it. Starting a year ago in college is when people I started meeting knew how to say it, and what's cool is an election judge knew how to say it a couple weeks ago too!

Plenty of people still look at me like I'm lying or like I don't know what I'm talking about when I tell them either how to spell my name or how my name is pronounced. Which is why I'm convinced I have to somehow remain in highly diverse and educated environments even though I hate studying. I will find a way.

Anyway, like I said, I'm attached to my name... If I marry Ben, Miller is boring as hell (no offense, lover!). But Anni Miller? I dunno... Of all the people I can think of right now, there are some awesome name combinations as well as some not as cool combinations (not currently existing couples, just combinations of everyone I can think of).

My rambling about cool name combinations almost trivializes the original issue which had something to do with respect, tradition, feminism... A couple of the comments were interesting. Women's taking husbands' last names used to signify transfer of ownership, that is a point, and it's also a point that demanding to keep your maiden name as a way to show your husband doesn't own you is almost... well, it's a small battle. I'm not going to try to get into that.

I just realized somewhere along the way that I don't really have to take anyone's name and if whatever name does not really suit me, I'm not taking it... I guess I ignore that thing about respect as well as tradition. But I also ignore that thing about feminism. Though one could argue that simply the way I'm thinking about it is moving forward...

Anyway, I guess I'm not doing a poll because I don't want to make the answers. Just comment... what are you doing? What do you want? What do you think?

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[info]your_friend
2004-03-25 01:03 pm UTC (link)
Ben Hsia.

- Bill

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[info]estrie
2004-03-25 02:34 pm UTC (link)
doesn't really have that ring either ;-)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]your_friend
2004-03-26 01:00 am UTC (link)
How about this?

Ben Hsia!!

- Bill

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[info]xapian
2004-03-25 08:09 pm UTC (link)
Ben Smoot... Now that has a nice ring to it... Ben will you marry me...

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[info]lindze
2004-03-25 01:45 pm UTC (link)
heya...you dont know me, sorry to butt in ^^;

but Im married and I have the EXACT stance on it as you. Ive gotten heat from my feminist friends about changing my name, but basically....i took my husbands last name because it was about a million times better than my maiden name, which i loathed and hate my father who gave it to me as well...soooOOO, yeah.
maiden name: Lindze Duininck
Married name: Lindze Merritt (much better, right?)
BUT if i had liked my maiden name, i would have kept it. i didnt change it to be tradtional, or so things would make more sense to people, but just cause i wanted to. Im not into keeping original names just to be a feminist...i think its an individual choice on how you feel about it fitting YOU.
but personally, i think the guys should have to change their names. following a matriarchal family line is more logical than patriarchal, just since its more acurate. no bra burning in that statement...just logic.

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[info]estrie
2004-03-25 02:45 pm UTC (link)
ahh... thank you for commenting!!! i like it very much.
and, certainly, i like what you said :)

regarding the matriarchal family line, i never really thought about it before, but now i will happily be considering it for awhile. it particularly makes sense when keeping in mind that jewish lineage is passed on through the mother.

A recent response in [info]plural's journal is from a woman who kept her name just because that's her, and their children have *her* last name (because they feel children should have the same last name as their mother). Which I agree with... and I find it strange that I so readily agree because the only examples I've ever seen of parents w/ diff. names have children who have their father's name.

It's actually cool cause as the comments in plural's journal progress, they're less and less responses to what he wrote, and more statements that are similar to our viewpoint... It's a name, it's names, and it's what suits us.

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[info]lachrymite
2004-03-25 02:10 pm UTC (link)
I really hate my last name. I can't think of any names it meshes well with. Stupid fucking Portuguese name. So, I hope that my future wife, should I get married, keeps her maiden name. Hell, I would like it if I could take hers, depending what it is. It's not a matter of feminism, since I'm certainly not a male feminist in the least and enjoy quite traditional family units and like submissive women. It's just a matter of aesthetics.

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[info]dr_rocket
2004-03-25 02:27 pm UTC (link)
your spite for the portuguese wouldn't happen to stem from your hatred of your own name, eh?

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[info]lachrymite
2004-03-25 02:39 pm UTC (link)
I think my spite from the Portuguese mainly stems from the fact that they are the predominant minority in this area, and thus I have a lot of experience with how obnoxious they can be as a culture. Many are first generation immigrants, and still cling strongly to their rather annoying old world ways, like a machismo similar to that found in many Hispanic cultures, fanatic dedication to the Catholic church, and a much stronger bias against intelligence and for the ability to play soccer than is found in most of the subcultures of America. Even though I'm only 25%, since I have the last name and the general Portuguese male look, I can get stereotyped into being just another Portagee or greenhorn (the slurs for Portuguese around here). Ironically, if I go anywhere else, like when I lived in Philadelphia or Africa, and people find out I'm Portuguese they think it's all exotic and interesting.

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[info]estrie
2004-03-25 02:35 pm UTC (link)
yo, it meshes well with jym :D

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[info]lachrymite
2004-03-25 02:40 pm UTC (link)
It does! That's probably part of the reason I've kept what is basically a childhood nickname that would typically be seen as rather annoying and an attempt to be different. That, and I'm just too lazy to make the switch mentally.

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[info]dr_rocket
2004-03-25 02:36 pm UTC (link)
should we get married, i think the best idea would be to keep our current names. should we have kids, perhaps we'll flip a coin and decide on a case-by-case basis, or make up a new one (Hsialler?).

as far as the "ownership" issue, it may be a small battle, but i honestly can't think of a better way to remove the idea of transferring ownership of the woman from one family to the other than to get rid of that name convention, and, well, i, speaking as a male of course, certainly see this as an important women's issue

not only that, but i like your last name and would hate for you to give it up.

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[info]estrie
2004-03-25 02:54 pm UTC (link)
hsialler?

you're making me laugh. a lot :)

actually, it occured to me eventually that it's possible women have taken their husbands' names for so long because the children so identify with their mothers. it's almost unfair... as Lindze (above) said, it makes sense to go matriarchal, and it makes sense (i think) that children should have the same name as their mother... ha, now i know for certain i need to think about this.

i think it would be hilarious if we literally flipped a coin for each child (me, bearing children? whoa...).

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[info]loganx3d
2004-03-26 01:20 am UTC (link)
What better way to emasculate a guy than removing all reference to his family name from his own lineage?

I always thought of taking the last name as a sort of family thing. You're "the Smith family", not "John Smith, and Emily Bedersen, and our son, Mike Smith-Bedersen". I guess it's one of those crazy kooky traditions of having everyone in the immediate family grow up with the same last name. Although I did know some kids who didn't have that... their parents were divorced.

But you guys have fun with your feminism.

P.S. Anni Burton? C'monnn... just one kid? For me?

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[info]estrie
2004-03-26 03:24 am UTC (link)
Hmm... I thought it was kind of clear that most of the people who have commented so far aren't particularly concerned with feminism. There's just a total disregard for either a) tradition or b) the family unit, apparantly.

But I guess the only way to respond to your first sentence is to make it a feminist issue... Whose lineage by name is continued/passed down is completely arbitrary... Or is it? I really don't know.

Jewish status (I don't know how else to put it) is passed on by the mother (meaning if your mother is Jewish you are Jewish), and why? Some people seem to think there's a really good reason, and what I remember of that reason, I believe, logically applies to surname as well.

Chinese families can be called "the Chin family" or whatever, but not everyone in the same family necessarily has the same surname. Women don't even take a new surname... unless they want to, I guess.

As I said in another comment, the only children I've known whose parents use diff. last names have their father's last name.

Anyway, really, what better way to emasculate a guy than to only have daughters, right? And why, again? Because there's nobody to whom to leave the family land?

I feel like your comment was a joke basically and you're laughing at me for responding...

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[info]loganx3d
2004-03-26 08:54 am UTC (link)
It wasn't a joke, I'm just devoid of tact. (and didn't use smilies. :D :\ :-$ )

I mean, I see the point being made about the arbitrariness of whose name gets passed down, but for most cultures the man's name is passed. This is, of course, a masculinity thing, which one can argue as being trite, but for some cultures (I'm looking at you, hispanics), having more kids to pass down the family name is a show of how much of a man you are. Having only one kid is like being laughed at for your tiny genitals, inability to please a woman, and pink Barbie bicycle you ride to work. Oh, *I* know it's ridiculous, but tell that to them!

OK, but my real point was that there's very little nowadays to bring families together. Apart from living in the same house (sometimes), what connection do you have to your family? Already technology is making it easier and more desirable to gain interests, opinions, and culture from outside. Not to mention that every child's dream is to one day move far away from their parents. Maybe I just long for the days when a connection to a family truly meant something other than bloodline, and see removing a similarity between family members as a way to forget about them? Like, you see your last name and you can see your family. But with a different last name, it's more "out of sight, out of mind".

Then again, this is a kind of stupid reason to keep a last name, and family bonds should be built on stronger stuff than a forced naming system. So I guess my solution is to say "OK, whatever," and just be depressed at society's increasing trend towards loneliness and isolation.

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[info]estrie
2004-03-26 01:15 pm UTC (link)
:-o

so sad!!!

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[info]life_on_credit
2004-03-25 11:26 pm UTC (link)
I don't care the least bit about feminism, but if I ever get married I will probably keep my last name unless the dude has a name that sounds better with my first name. It comes down purely to a matter of how it sounds to me.

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-27 09:57 am UTC (link)
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